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Schundler and McGreevey Meet in Combative New Jersey Debate
Originally appeared in the New York Times on October 11, 2001
Bret D. Schundler laced into James E. McGreevey last night in a spirited first debate between the candidates for governor of New Jersey, saying that Mr. McGreevey would raise taxes if elected and suggesting that he lacked the courage to say no to the many groups that have endorsed his campaign.
Mr. McGreevey, meanwhile, questioned his Republican rival's honesty and straightforwardness with the electorate, saying that Mr. Schundler's proposals, like cutting taxes and eliminating tolls on the Garden State Parkway, would cost $3 billion that the state does not have, and would do grave damage to New Jersey's public schools.
"I can't get rid of the tolls in nine months," Mr. McGreevey said. "Respectfully, neither can Mr. Schundler. The difference is, I'm saying it. I believe at the end of the day, people want a governor who's going to be honest with them."
Throughout the hourlong encounter, Mr. McGreevey, who has a healthy lead in the polls, appeared more at ease, though he seemed to strain to add levity to the debate, joking at one point that his mother was "saying rosaries for a good economy."
But if Mr. McGreevey's jokes fell flat, a glowering Mr. Schundler was deadly serious. He began the debate with opening remarks in which he promised to combat terrorism by working closely with "my friend President Bush," and ended by invoking a horror that still haunts some New Jerseyans: the 1990 tax increases of the last Democratic governor.
"This man is worse than Jim Florio," Mr. Schundler said.
The debate touched on a broad range of issues familiar to New Jersey voters, from abortion and gun control to racial profiling and suburban sprawl. On auto insurance, the issue that nearly carried Mr. McGreevey to victory over former Gov. Christie Whitman in 1997, Mr. McGreevey was questioned about his frequent complaint that New Jersey's insurance rates remain the nation's highest. But he demurred when invited by a panelist to pledge not to run for re-election if the state still tops that list in four years.
"Ultimately, that'll be the voters' decision," he said. "But I'm determined to get it done."
Much of the debate, however, focused on education, where the two men differ radically. Mr. McGreevey, who has the backing of New Jersey's teachers' union, promises to fix the public schools, while Mr. Schundler favors school choice, and has proposed shifting state money, through tax cuts and scholarships, into private schools.
Mr. McGreevey promised to improve third-grade literacy, and said that for the state's failing, neediest school districts, "we need benchmarks of accountability, we need a governor who is going to work with parents, with principals, to ensure that we meet those benchmarks.
"And I say to those failing school districts," he added, "meet your new best friend."
But Mr. Schundler retorted: "The accountability he talks about will still be accountability to politicians, who are concerned about their next election more than anything else.
"I have always talked about trying to have parental accountability, because parents love their children. They are not worried about keeping some organized interest group happy so they can get its endorsement for the next election."
The two candidates fenced frequently on taxes and spending. Mr. Schundler ridiculed Mr. McGreevey for proposing to impose a $200,000 income limit for homeowners to receive the New Jersey Saver property-tax rebate. Mr. Schundler said, "Now there is $22 billion worth of spending he could cut, and he wasn't willing to cut any of the spending. All he is willing to cut is the tax relief rebate money."
Mr. Schundler added that he alone had pledged not to increase taxes.
Mr. McGreevey responded by saying that after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, "I think it's irresponsible of a government official to say under any circumstances, to make that kind of commitment."
Mr. McGreevey added that his own proposals had been "rational and reasonable," while Mr. Schundler, he said, had made "three billion dollars' worth of promises."
"The point is this," Mr. McGreevey said. "I believe government has to live within its means."
The debate took place at the Victoria Theater of the New Jersey Performing Arts Center in downtown Newark, and it was broadcast live on the New Jersey Network, a statewide system of public television and radio systems, and also on the Web at www.njn.net. The sponsors included the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce and four related groups as well as three newspapers, The Record of Hackensack, The Philadelphia Inquirer and The North Jersey Herald News of Passaic County. NJN is to broadcast the debate again on Sunday at noon.
The debate was the first chance for voters to take the measure of both men side by side, and for that reason presented Mr. Schundler with a much-needed chance to win over undecided voters, who are notorious in New Jersey for making up their minds at the last possible moment.
A PublicMind poll released yesterday by Fairleigh Dickinson University found Mr. McGreevey ahead of Mr. Schundler by 50 to 33 percent among likely voters, with 17 percent still undecided. It also found that voters viewed Mr. McGreevey favorably by a margin of nearly 3 to 1, while Mr. Schundler's favorable ratio was a little better than 3 to 2.
The survey of 626 likely voters was taken from Oct. 1 through Oct. 8 and had a margin of sampling error of 4 percentage points. Other independent polls in the last few weeks have put Mr. McGreevey's lead at 14 or 15 percentage points.
The ads the two candidates are running are not yet as contentious as their debate tonight, although each has begun attacking the other directly, Mr. Schundler by depicting his rival as soft on crime and predisposed to raise taxes, Mr. McGreevey by depicting Mr. Schundler's views on abortion, gun control and school choice as extreme.
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